I don't think you're going to get too much opposition on this one...haha. The guy is the lowest dirt bag ever and should never get to play in the NFL ever. The Cowboys would take him.
I hope Goodell dosent even let him be reinstated, so no team can't even talk or think they'll get him!
This is a tough argument to make since so many people hate the guy but I think he (like anyone else) deserves a second chance.
This should also be his LAST chance. If he does ANYTHING else that isn't good or within the limits of the law he should be done. BUT you can't not give someone a second chance.
Many people do stupid things every day in this world. But does that mean they shouldn't get a chance to do their job and earn a good salary again? No. It doesn't. It means that you have to determine if the person is actually willing to change.
Was what Vick did wrong?? 100% absolutely wrong. But everyone deserves a second chance IF they have served their time and paid the price. And IF they prove that they are remorseful and a changed person.
And I was cut off due to time..What i said at the end is the Raiders give me nothing to root for anymore anyway I've been watching the Raiders for 30 years and the A's for 25 and Yes after seeing all these athletes, Getting busted for murding their wives(Carolina's Rae Carruth), Ray lewis, Leonard Little killing a woman cause he was drunk after he already gotten a DUI before that, I could on and on, But i will no longer put my hard earned money down to support a leauge that is OK with Torture and brutle killings of pregnat Dogs and Gambling
if your OK with that then YOU got something very wrong with you!..That tells me you have no Morales at all, If you have children that makes me more sick!, Anyone who thinks he should be allowed back in is just as guilty as him, Second chance Pfffd please!..He will once he steps foot into society again and is free to start his life over again!. You act like there is no other job out there for him I could name Tons of them!. Damn GM you dissapoint me, But like you care anyway!
i dont know if the personal shots are necessary...and this would really make you stop watching sports as a whole...i mean i could maybe understand the NFL, but all sports...thats crazy mike...
It's my opinon VERB and if you are OK with it then your just as dirty as Vick the Dick!..and yes ALL sports I can't justify to family and friends that sports is Great when it's already hard too with all the other Dark facts of it!.. This last thing would disqust me royally and signal too me that every person here and the U.S. And world has truely lost there way on morales and integerity of sports will completely be vanished!, and there will be nothing left to embrace!...well maybe Golf cause alot of people don't consider that a sport but a GAME!...but yes I'll stop watching sportcenter,NFL Network, Sports Radio and will not Re-New my season tickets for the Raiders and focus my life on things that have class and integerity, I feel that strong about this and I know one person won't make a difference but at least I can feel good about myself and not support a person who is LESS than Human and people willing to embrace him blindly and say "oh he screwed up" those people have no morales and are Brainwashed by their TV and can't think for themself or their Children! People who argue in favor of Vick are people who just want to argue!, and makes me want too puke!
First of all....I don't think the personal attacks are necessary. I respect your opinion. I never said Michael Vick was anywhere near right and I never said I agreed with it. So for you to attack my morals is ridiculous. You have no idea who I am or anything about me. That is an ingorant move on your part and if you lost respect for me on this I have lost some for you for the personal shots that had NOTHING to do with the argument at hand.
Now let me say this, hopefully this clears up any misconception. I think Michael Vick deserved MORE of a punishment than what he got. What he did was unacceptable and shouldn't be allowed anywhere.
BUT I don't enforce the law or set the penalty. SO I can only base my decisions on the facts that are presented to me. Do I care if Vick ever plays again? No. I enjoyed watching him play but I don't miss him as a player nor do I care if I see him play again.
It appears to me that you are upset with how many athletes (and celebrities in general) get away with criminal acts and offenses without punishment. I am too. It is disgrace to watch famous people get off with a slap on the wrist. But that is NOT what we are talking about here.
This is an example where the athlete has served his time (whether you feel it fair or not). He was sentenced and he will serve the term accepted.
BECAUSE of that I say he is entitled to another chance. The crime he committed had NOTHING to do with his career so you can't necessarily make the transition. For example an accountant that cooks the books and gets nailed for it should NOT be allowed to work as an accountant again for any organization. But that person should be able to move into the marketing department if they want to.
Point: Vick's career had NOTHING to do with his crime. So you can not punish the career for the crime.
I wanted this separate.
BUT the NFL does have the right to ban him from playing. And if they take that stand it is fine with me. They are able to do that.
I have NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. My argument was based on the fact that his career should not be threatened due to the legal issues. Not sure if this is coming out right but maybe it is.
I see the point you are making. And like I said above...I agree with much of what you are saying. When I took the debate it was more on the legal side and less on the NFL's side of things. Legally I don't think his actions should affect his future work (obviously limiting some careers). But from the NFLs perspective they can do what they want.
Again I didn't make this argument thinking that the NFL HAS to let him back in. I meant in society and legally he shouldn't be held down because of a mistake. A mistake that he has paid for.
RaiderMike, I hope you will consider my opinions prior to lashing out at me on personal issues again.
And 1 more thing. There are plenty of people (hell you might even work with some) that have done some bad things in this world that you don't know about. You are entitled to handle the Vick return (if it happens) any way you want. And honestly if you stop following sports I will miss debating with you on here. But always remember that no matter what you do or where you are there is someone near you that has done something that you don't agree with and something illegal. You can't avoid everything. There are plenty of good athletes out there who do the right thing. And there are plenty of bad people out there that you will still support.
First of all GM you need to read more Carefully there are no personal attacks on you directly!. Go read the second comment" IF your OK with it...I never said you were I maybe got carried away with my response and for that I apologize for that!. But IF was the the first word I said!..But beside that you still Argued it..But that's OK cause it was a test debate too see who want too challenge a No-Win Debate unless you feel strong on the other end of it!. But Here is how i debunk your theory. First of all I want the TRUTH from you have you ever known anyone in your family or friends or LIFE who ever tortured dogs the way he did?. My answer is you probably have not!. But I seen some shit but NEVER could think up the shit Vick the Dick did, I mean maybe a few Hollywood movies maybe, But not in real life, And with his FEDERAL crime will gurantee a punishiment that's no doubt for any citizen, So just cause you got punished and served time your hands are washed clean?, NFL is a Once in a Lifetime oppertunity watch the effort at the combine this week and you'll know what I mean, I know several people that were so close to making it and had tons of football talent but could not make it for one reason or another and they would not jepordize their meal ticket with something like that why? Cause the NFL is a privelage NOT a right!, Like your Driver's Liscense it can be revoked for alot of reasons cause it's a privelage, Just cause you know how too drive dosen't mean you have legal right too!, Furthermore after Vick the Dick serves his time he will get back what he should and value his family and friends and FREEDOM, I don't have a short memory like alot of people do, and i am a forgiving person, but when it comes to Sex offenders,Murders, Animal tortures and murders I have no sympanthy for them what so ever and feel that there option's for the rest of there life should be very limited!. He had his shot and blew it BIG TIME!
But again GM I apologize if I offended you on what I said it was not purely directed at you, I guess I have alot of respect for you and it hurt me too see you support a guy like this and let's face the facts Vick wasn't that good really anyway he had Flash but he was far from being a winner, He won ONE big playoff game Vs. Green Bay and that's it his numbers for a QB sucked ASS, now if he was like Pete Rose then the Argument would be stronger to some, but me flat out this guy is evil, I don't beleive for a second that this guy is sorry cause he spent less than 2 years in prison!, If he was truely sorry he wouldn't of done what he did!, Lets not forget this was something he did for years not just a One time thing like pull a trigger once or have a accident and kill someone in a isolated inccident, Or be around a crowd when something went down, he did this whole thing on his own, Bankrolled the whole thig on his own, and for a long time!, He's not sorry he will just be happy to be on the other side of the bars!, And people today are so gulable and don't think about the reality of this situation and just nod their heads YES and let LESS than Human people off the hook with a snap of the fingers!, Not me, Their are some country's you get your hand cut off for Stealing!, But I will stop this Ranting cause I respect everyone here and especially you GM, I hope accept my apology cause you got to understand this is a very sensitive topic for me but I feel kinda better now cause at least a few people read all of this and listened a little and not a TV.
But your right there are alot of people that I support that have done bad things!, But not the extreme of Vick!,it will be awhile before Vick comes back anyway the latest I heard was he will be suspended at least for the 09' season, So you'll have me around for at least another year and a half LOL. I am just fed up with all the acceptance of this B.S. that Athlete's do, I myself have turned and eye on things that maybe i wouldn't but I did cause I love Sports as much as anyone here!, But there's gotta be a line where you just say this has gone too far and Vick the Dick is just that, Someone like him needs to be set as a example to the rest of the sporting world (like Pete Rose LIFETIME BAN), That there are consequences for your actions and it won't be tolerated what so ever!
I appreciate the apology and I do accept it. And as far as personal experience with this I haven't seen exactly the same thing but something similar but this is not a place for that. This is a place for sports.
Like I said before, my point of view was more from a societal and legal point of view. I am not saying that he should be totally forgiven for what he did. And he won't be. To anyone that ever meets him or comes across him he will be Michael Vick the guy who tortured animals, including me. BUT from a legal and societal point of view that doesn't mean that he can't get a second chance at life and making a living no matter what it is.
But at the same time I agree with your point that the NFL does NOT have to be the place to let him back in. It absolutely is a privilege and he might have blown it. And if Goodell decides to never allow him back that is fine by me. That is the NFLs decision.
I just got your last comment....I agree. If Goodell was ever going to send a message this would be that time. The message would be heard far and wide. And maybe that is exactly what needs to be done.
Personally I won't stop following sports but then again I don't buy NFL tickets, pay per view, or merchandise so I wouldn't really be supporting him in that regard.
Cool Man, You got to understand I'm a passionate fan and my roots run deep, Shit I am Raider Fan! LOL you know how we are (aledgely), Well anyway thanks for debating this anyway cause like I said before this topic needs to be talked about and remind people of what had happened, If this was Jo-blow guy on the street no one would care, But this is the most visable stage in the world in my opinon and Kids look up to these guys and it's a hard one to explain this one away. anyway GM thanks for understanding me, and see you later in other debates!.
Mike, that was cool...GM, that was cool...we have had some awesome debates on here and i really thought when it started getting personal, i was going to be done but i think it will only get better from here...
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