Look, ya I'm a Yankee fan, but I live in Mass, so all my friends are Sox fans. And even they don't believe he ever took anything of the sort, they tell me all the time how jealous they are he isn't playing for them. So sounds more like a bitter rant, then anything. If you want to talk about PEDs, what about Ortiz, and V-tek, after baseball implemented drug testing, both of them took huge dives in performance, and ever since have been horrible, Mo, has been consistent his entire career, so a gun to my head, loaded finger on the trigger, I'm saying NO, not a doubt in my mind!
How can you disgrace the great Rivera? He, along with Jeter, are two of the guys universally though to have never touched or considered roids. Come on.
Hey Matt....Pettite was universally thought to have never used steroids too...way more than Rivera....did/does Jeter use them? i dont know,probably not...but im sure you think that Jeter has also never sworn, smoked weed, or cheated on hbis girlfriend....which i guarantee he has done all of those...point is, your a kid, and hes your idol...but he is not some "great man"....thanks for playing though....and to giibsreport...you said everyone used ped's...so thanks for admitting i was correct.
Thats funny that you talk about "proof"...do you have proof Bonds or Clemens used them? did you have proof McWire used them before he admitted it? But im sure you believe they all used them....WITH NO PROOF! !! ! ! Cant have it both ways there tough guy.
With all those guys you listed you could see the change in their body or they have been linked to it by other players, criminal investigations or positive test results
To go along with Gibbs, those guys you just mentioned were all linked to federal investigations, including Pettitte. With Clemens there is proof, aka his trainer, Bonds, admitted to using a "cream", and McGwire, it was always assumed, and now we were proved correct, so last time I checked, might not be proof, but the fact that the federal government is investigating them, well if thats not good enough for you then I don't know. But for Mo, no one in baseball even thinks he ever has, even Schilling who hates the Yankees once talked about how great Mo was, and you know how he feels about steroids. Sounds like you might be on your own with this one.
That last comment was obviously supposed to oppose.
You both made weak arguments in all honesty. For one thing, you are innocent until proven guilty and there has been no indication other than "he's from the steroid era" to think that Rivera ever touched anything illegal. Secondly, he was an incredibly gifted athlete that signed as a kid who was going to play the outfield. He happened to have a wonderful arm but people questioned his durability given his size. His size hasn't changed over time so it's not as if his physical appearance gives something away, and he has diminished in skillset the way older guys do. His fastfall used to touche 95-96 and now hits about 90-91. The thing is, it has ALWAYS had so much movement which makes it so effective. That comes from ability to throw a pitch with movement, not steroids. That is why he has longevity. He is one of the great talents of all time and I suggest you just let it be and enjoy the fact that you got to see him play.
""With all those guys you listed you could see the change in their body or they have been linked to it by other players, criminal investigations or positive test results""
well...many athletes get bigger. Actually almost all of them do....linked to it by other players? yeah, that means nothing...and i dont believe any of those i named (bonds, clemens, mcwire) had a positive test result .....but keep making things up if you want to......you think there is no way Griffey iused them just because hes a "good guy"??? You people are seriously very naive. Im sure you all also are in love with Barry Obama. What a joke
Tito, your main argument seems to be saying that there is a possibility that Rivera is on steroids because of how unbelievably great he's been. Is it a possibility, sure, anything is possible. It's possible that Rivera is a terrible guy who's cheated on his wife, but it's unlikely. I agree with Gibbs, there comes a time when greatness just has to be accepted. Do you believe Jordan was on steroids at the height of his career? He was doing things just as unprecedented as RIvera is doing now. Do you think Lebron is on steroids? The guy weighs in at 280, is it a byproduct of PED's, or hard work? If your argument is that Rivera is on steroids because a) he played in the steroids era, and b) his greatness is unprecedented, then don't you have to argue that every big name player in baseball from 1990-2008 was on PED's? Where does it end? Maddux, Glavine, Griffey? Rivera has been the same size his entire career and has been rock solid consistent, with no big jumps in performance since he arrived in the league. In fact, his fastball has gone down considerably in the past 5-6 years. Do PED's make his pitches move? Also with Jeter, the guy hasn't gained very much size in his career and hasn't had any big power number spikes. You can argue that any player in this era might have tried steroids, but you are flat out accusing Rivera of being on steroids for no particular reason other than he's been the best ever at his position. When does being great due to hard work and a god given gift come in to play?
Also, you ask for proof for Big Mac and Bonds....please, the proof is in their 22 inch arms, massively overgrown heads, and 70+ HR power. There is hard proof and then there is simply common sense. Those guys were linked to steroids for years by Congress, former players, etc. Rivera has never once been linked or suspected. You mention Pettite and that's an isolated case. The vast majority of suspected users have in fact been proven to have been users by either themselves or MLB.
Well Matt, i never said he was definitely on them...but i believe in my heart there is over a 51 percent chance he was...thats my opinion, and it is because of the steroid area...i really dont believe steroids help pitchers as much as hitters as far as pure performance, but surely it helps them recover and prevent injuries.....again, if you completely rule him out like most, that's foolish....i understand he is your hero and all, but it is what it is. I would say Griffey used them too....just because someone is a "good guy" does not make them a "bad guy" if they used steroids...at all....and if you think its unlikely Rivera cheated on his wife? C mon man, of COURSE he has...stop being so naive...there is nothing wrong with cheating on the old lady, and that doesnt make him less a player/person, but thats a ridiculous analogy.....and i never flat out "accused" Rivera, i just believe there is a better chance than not he took them....Pujols too by the way.....hard work and god given talent do come into play, but it never has come into play for anybody at his position ever in the history of the world for so long.
Lets just face it, we will never know for sure about players in the steroids era. As sad as that is, whenever a player is having a great year, or has had a great career, people always wonder if steroids or HGH, or something of the similar was used. The one thing in this argument I can agree with Tito is that, we don't really know, it was named the steroid era for a reason, and with the MLB testing being weak (in my opinion) theres still ways around it, especially since MLB wont commit to an HGH test yet. Its just sad that whenever a player is having a monster year, or career, we cant help but wonder about them, its sad, yet very true.
WTF Tito. You believe it in your heart then come out with that weak you believe there is a 51% chance he used.
Yeah guys get bigger and more often then not you can tell when it was natural. Putting 30 lbs of muscle on in a few months is not natural which is what happened with Bonds and Sosa
And did you just accuse me of liking the president. check out my most recent show. Obama needs to keep his ass off ESPN
The reason why i say 51 % is the gun toi my head analogy...im going with the best percentage....reading comprehension bro...i have absolutely no idea if he used them or not...neither do you...but ill say he did if backed into a corner......oh yeah....Andy Pettite is a filthy liar cheater...just so you know...."good guy"...Bwahahahahaha
This argument for Rivera using steroids is so bogus. There's nothing to back it. Gibbsreport said it best in the first fancast: Tito sounds bitter and angry.
Dude, the guy is good. Deal with it.
Brett Favre has been rolling at a stud in the NFL for nearly 20 years. Is he a roid-craver, too?
I agree that even that is POSSIBLE, but you can't just throw words around like a monkey throwing crap. Have some credibility, some actual thoughts, SOMETHING.
I believe this guy did that. boom. that's my argument.
Seriously? You should get blanked on this debate. It's pointless.
Welll.....Brett Favre is a raging drug addict that illegally used pain pills....this is a fact....and yeah, i never said Rivera wasnt good, i actually said he was great (except in the 2004 ALCS.....Bahahahahahahahahahaha......chump!)
Any proof that David Ortiz did steroids?
You must be logged in leave a comment.
A FanVsFan Challenge is a structured debate between two fans. Each fan gets two turns to prove their case and silence their rival. Other fans can view, vote and comment on the debate. Get involved and vote on the debates below.
See Full Leaderboard
Stop the talk because Collins is the right leader for the Mets
Phillies Notes: Sizemore, Jimenez, Brown, Tomas
Big E’s NFL Power Ten, Week 7
1st and Ten World Series Preview
1st and Ten Sports Show: World Series Podcast
Royals and Giants: World Series can go either way